So Blizzard, about that Lore thing…

I generally try not to be too harsh on Blizzard regarding their lore – I recognize that Metzen’s approach to writing the next chapter for a new game/expansion/whatever can essentially be described as “Guys! I have a new and even better idea, so let’s just go with that and tape it onto what we have and it’ll be great!”, that Lore isn’t exactly and has never been their prime focus (heck, it wasn’t until Starcraft that they started proper stories with interesting characters) and that the stories they do try to tell generally matter far more to us than it ever did to them.

That said, sometimes I find myself wondering if they even care at all.

Cataclysm has been an… interesting… time for the Warcraft Lore. On one hand, with the redesign of most of the old world, there’s been a golden opportunity for Blizzard to take everything they’ve learned about how to make quests more interesting over the years and apply that to a familiar setting, not to mention the chance to advance time and give a glimpse of how things changed over the years.

On the other hand… seeing how Blizzard seems to have a certain chance of suffering a critical fail whenever they touch their own lore in any way, shape or form… it’s also provided a singificant risk of reducing overall lore cohesion even further.

There was one particular instance of this happening that actually rather amused me – the dialogue above, happening between some Highborne ghosts in Stonetalon Mountains, seem to quite clearly refer to Malfurion having several other druids with him in pre-Sundering times. This is interesting because while that was indeed the case… that particular past was largely retconned out of existance when Richard A. Knaak came around and decided the best way to write about how the Night elves fought off the Burning Legion was to have a Human, an Orc and a Dragon travel into the past to help them. Now while I’m sure it’s probably just a case of whoever wrote that dialogue not having read the most up-to-date examples of the lore rather than the subtle show of anti-Knaak rebellion that I want it to be.. anything official that reduces the validity of his version is generally met with my approval and amusement.

But then there were other issues…

I was going through the new daily Darnassus cooking and fishing quests the other day, pleased with how I had one more reason not to coddle to Stormwind, when I came upon this particular snippet and… it blew my mind, to be frank. I’m aware that this probably shouldn’t really surprise me, nor really even upset me nearly as much as it does, but…

Whenever there is any guide on how to characterize/roleplay a Night elf, or any long list of answers and suggestions and what have you on the matter.. Item One in Paragraph One on Page One is nearly always “You can not have been born and raised in Teldrassil, it’s less than a decade old!”

With this in mind, I’m not sure what I can say beyond Congratulations, Blizzard! – you have reached a new low in your failure to comprehend your own lore! I’m actually not sure where to even begin with this.. it just raises so many questions. Do their quest writers read even the basic, abbrevated timeline before they get started, or should we start expecting to hear about an Orcish/Goblin funded expedition to southern Kalimdor where they send the Reliquary to dig for a common ancestor for both Orcs and Goblins that had a society there a few thousand years ago?

I probably shouldn’t be surprised about any of this – I’ve grown quite accustomed to the realization that Blizzard doesn’t care about their own lore nearly as much as some of its fanbase does, but this just strikes me with how little effort they seem to put in at times. I’ve been thinking for some time that what Blizzard really could use is to employ one or two people with the sole job of compiling all the snippets of lore and collect it into a single location so that in the very least if they contradict something, they’d be aware of it and might try to work with it. That said.. with this in mind, it seems more and more like the first step would be simply to get the people who work with the lore to actually read the lore.

I don’t ask that Blizzard be perfect – by no means. People make mistakes, and I certainly make my own set of them with Beyond the Tree (though not quite as often as people try to point out, I’m glad to say), but there’s a point where it just goes beyond that.

And where am I headed with all this? I don’t know; I don’t exactly expect Blizzard will change anything on account of my jumping up and down in impotent internet rage, or even take notice at all – and let’s face it.. Blizzard getting their own lore wrong is not exactly the discovery of the century by any stretch. It’s more akin to “Breaking news: scientists discover earth’s atmosphere consists of air.”

Still, some days it hits me with just how little they seem to care.


36 Responses to “So Blizzard, about that Lore thing…”

  1. 1 Synchronizor
    May 9, 2011 at 15:36

    The text for that fishing quest jumped out at me too; With Teldrassil less than a decade old, the sisters could not have spent much time there before moving to Darnassus. Whatever the quest writer meant, I simply took it to mean that they had lived for some time in Dolanaar until Aquinne had come of age to serve in the Temple. It may be a bit of a stretch for a Night Elf to refer as such to somewhere she lived for less than a decade, but not too unrealistic a statement for ccasual conversation; especially if she sees those years as significally formative. There’s also the fact that being old enough to serve as a novice in the Temple is unlikely to refer to full adulthood; the initial description of Shandris Feathermoon in the War of the Ancients novels describes her as nearly old enough to serve in the Temple, but also seems to describe her as being in a young- to middle-adolescent developmental stage.

    I never noticed the odd wording in the cooking quest though. Even with it pointed out, I don’t think it’s as much a potential problem as the fishing quest. Without thinking about the exact wording, the main points that come across to me are that his family has been making kimchi for generations, and that it’s the best in Darnassus. Granted, his exact wording implies that his family has provided kimchi to Darnass for centuries, but again, it’s not much of a jump to infer a lore-compatible meaning from what is ultimately casual conversation.

    Think of how you talk; is every sentence you utter exactly, precisely worded to be accurate to the last detail? Not likely. People tend to talk at the same rate they think; they often don’t prepare or even arrange their thoughts in common conversation.

    Were these quest writers ignorant of every facet of Night Elven lore? Probably.

    Were they assuming incorrect facts about the timeline of the setting? Most likely.

    Could it have been a heck of a lot worse? Oh yes. Instead of vague descriptions that could be fudged as generalizations and misworded conversation, the writers could have said something unavoidably specific, like Astaia saying she and her sister were born in Dolanaar, or Alegorn calling Darnassus his ancestral home.

    The implied lack of lore knowledge here on the part of the developers is indeed a bit worrying, but having personally spent years following fictional universes with massive lore bases, the kinds of slip-ups seen here are about the best-case scenario.

    • 2 Nhani
      May 9, 2011 at 16:08

      The causality doesn’t work though, because it’s stretch upon stretch. There were already some implied fumbling with the quests involving sister Aquinne over in Dolanaar itself, but they were loosely stretched enough that it could work. This is very specific, to the point where it seems obvious how the loosely defined quests in Dolanaar ultimately cascaded into a series of misunderstandings that finally culminated “grew up together in Dolanaar”.

      That causality seems obvious – the one where this is some minor slip of the tongue.. not so much. I’m aware you don’t need to look far to find significant holes in Warcraft’s lore, but I’m having significant problems seeing how that line could have made it in there without the writer responsible not realizing Teldrassil hasn’t been there that long.

      As for the remark about generations, that too is stretch upon stretch. Because first you have the implication of several generations in Darnassus, and even without that, there’s still just generations. Seeing how Blizzard made another NPC in Darkshore make a big thing about not knowing what it was like to be mortal with Cataclysm, citing generations, in plural, especially tied to a location, is suspect at best.

      Can you find ways to wing how it could possibly make sense if you tilt your head, look at it sideways and possibly get very drunk? Yes, definitely – but that doesn’t change the fact that I can’t see any way those lines made it in there without someone not knowing the very basics of the race they were writing for.

      And on the topic of “Think of how you talk; is every sentence you utter exactly, precisely worded to be accurate to the last detail?” – no, it isn’t; dialogue in Beyond the Tree is heavily built on that element, in fact, in spite of people sometimes insisting to read the dialogue word for word. That said, even taking that into account, I can’t see how either of those lines made it in there without the writer not having a clue.

      This isn’t something like Draenei, Vrykul or Curse of Flesh where Blizzard took some old element and changed it to add something new and shiny; they simply didn’t read up. I know Blizzard can read the Lore, I know they can do some great things with it when they put their minds to it. So why do we get cases like this where they simply don’t seem to care? The only way I could possibly read this as the writer in question not making a huge slip is if they were trying to introduce some clever commentary on the many night elven roleplayers that have gone “I was born in Teldrassil” in the past, and that seems a tad too subtle for Blizzard, nevermind it’d need a punchline for it to work.

      • 3 Synchronizor
        May 9, 2011 at 16:46

        Oh, I agree completely with you that the quest writers didn’t know what they were talking about. They obviously had the wrong idea about Teldrassil’s age and Night Elf development, and pretty much phoned in these quests without giving them much thought or checking their facts. Even while a lot of people are unaware of how Night Elves age, it’s in no way an obscure fat that Teldrassil has only been around since the Third War.

        My point here is simply that these things aren’t all that bad. Despite making the ignorance of the writer quite obvious, these quests aren’t too contradictory when taken with a grain or two of salt.

        I guess it’d be a kind of “pick your battles” thing. Some slightly contradictory wording in a couple minor quests is not that bid of a deal on its own, especially when compared to other clashes I’ve seen.

        In the Clone Wars animated series, for example, George Lucas basically steamrolled through previously established canon on Mandalorian culture; ripping apart and effectively nullifying years of work that Star Wars author Karen Traviss had put into building what was one of the most interesting and detailed cultures in the Galaxy Far Far Away. Karen Travis predictably dropped the projects she was working on and quit the Star Wars universe for good. One of the coolest elements in Star Wars was torn apart, and the community lost a skilled, passionate, and well-liked author; just so a kid’s show could give Obi-Wan a romantic interest for an hour or so of TV time.

        I just want to keep these quests in WoW in perspective. I’m more than a little concerned that the ignorance shown in these quests could lead to something much more destructive later on, but until that happens, if it happens, I’m not going to bother getting all worked up; it’s kind of a drag.

        • 4 Nhani
          May 9, 2011 at 17:23

          George Lucas does that though – it’s been shown time and time again (I think he’s even been quoted on the matter?) that he doesn’t care about or even pay attention to the Expanded Universe elements and will gladly truck over them without even looking back.

          It’s even a fairly normal thing to happen with tie-in material; Star Trek had the same where Roddenberry didn’t consider any of the novels canon and would gladly stomp over them. Nevermind that they even have an alternate series of tie in novels refered to as the Shatnerverse that are non-canon to the regular tie-in novels. Wing Commander had the same thing where one tie-in writer made a novel dedicated almost entirely to explaining why Rhalga nar Hallas, or “Hobbes”, defected from the Kilrathi.. only for lead designer Chris Roberts to stomp all over that with Wing Commander III by making Hobbes a Kilrathi sleeper agent.

          This isn’t about main source versus tie-in material; moreover, Blizzard actually generally tends to try to reference the various comics and novels to some degree. And I’ve seen Metzen in interviews – even if I far from always agree with him on what constitutes a good story, he’s clearly passionate about the stories he tells and the characters he makes.. so how come there is clearly no lore QA to speak of going on with quest writers?

          This isn’t really about the size of the infraction, but the ways which it came to exist. It didn’t happen because of creative differences between main source and tie-in material or because Metzen once more had a new and better idea, it didn’t happen because that particular part of the lore is difficult, or impenetrable, or complicated or contradictive. It happened because, seemingly, some of Blizzards quest writers haven’t even taken the five minutes needed to read the cliff notes of the most basic lore timeline.

          And that’s what upsets me.

          Make no mistake, I’m not exactly going to go around shouting at people how horrible a crime this is to humanity or anything, nor am I going to lose any sleep over it. But I do care about the setting, and it is depressing to see it suffer such gross neglect.

  2. 5 Fyrina
    May 9, 2011 at 15:49

    Someone told me about those quest dialogues a bunch of weeks ago, and my mind was blown, quite frankly. You can say it’s not at all surprising, but well… while I wouldn’t be surprised if they make minor mistakes, this is all but minor. It’s the most sodding basic night elf lore, not at all in-depth. It’s as stupid as saying that there have always been Forsaken in control of Undercity, or that the Gilneans never walled themselves off from the rest of the Eastern Kingdoms. It makes me weep as a dedicated Night Elf roleplayer and well, it helps to make me quit the game, something I’ve planned for later this year.

    I bet they wouldn’t even correct it if several people sent a ticket about it. I remember sending a ticket about Maiev’s (Shadowsong) name being misspelled in a Darkshore quest text (the one from the item turn-in from the secret cave if you drown yourself in the whirlpool), that was shortly after launch. We’re 4.1 now and well, do you think they’ll actually have corrected it, despite the GM telling me my information has been passed on? I haven’t checked since 4.0.6, but honestly, I’ll eat my dog if they actually have with this patch.

    • 6 Nhani
      May 9, 2011 at 16:19

      I actually tried to send them a message using the support form on their webpage, saying these seem factually incorrect, could you please pass that on to the quest writing team so they at least flag them for a potential look, etcetera.

      I got the reply back saying thanks for the suggestion but due to legal reasons they’re unable to take suggestions via e-mail. Nice to see bug reports are suggestions now, apparently. The EU community forums don’t have a bug report forum either, only the US ones, so I can’t report it via there either. Funny, that.

      As for quitting.. it’s not really something that’ll cause that for me. Heck, it’s not really even a surprise more than it’s just an affirmation of something I’ve already been aware of for some time. It annoys me, but it’s not really much of a grand revelation.

      It’s just times like this, I don’t understand Blizzard. Why do they spend so much time trying to invent reasons why we go places and do things, and all that time trying to make a stronger and more focused narrative, only to then ignore all that and throw something like this out there.

      • 7 Fyrina
        May 10, 2011 at 17:11

        Oh, it’s not the reason I’m quitting I must add, that’s been the plan for a lot longer already – it’s because I care so much about the community and my characters that I really take my time doing so. This is just something that’ll make the (probably permanent) farewell a bit… easier.

        As irrelevant as it is, just felt like pointing that out. TERA is looking to be extremely appealing to me. 😉

      • 8 Frostsaben
        May 13, 2011 at 18:33

        You could try making a topic in the general forums. People will start complaining that Blizzard doesn’t respect lore and some blue will stumble in to check what is there all about that topic and read then report to higher authorities.

        I’d do it myself, but as I’m taking my break writing term papers I can’t post on the forums, having had my subscription end.

  3. 9 Sidenia
    May 9, 2011 at 18:50

    Oh fun. If this is happening I dread to think what’ll happen if we ever see Nazjatar and the ruins of Suramar and Zin-Azshari.

  4. 10 Andarien
    May 9, 2011 at 22:13

    I would -love- to see this get posted on the official forums. I know it wouldn’t make a difference, but just to see if one would actually recieve an official response and in which case, what the response would be.

  5. 12 Xel
    May 10, 2011 at 06:13

    Well, Blizzard is no Bioware, that’s for sure. While I think their major plotlines are actually pretty good, for the most part, Blizzard seems to get lost in the details. It’s almost as if they put their writers in different rooms, and don’t allow any communication between them.

    As much as the lore frustrates me, however, I can’t possibly deny that Blizzard knows what they’re doing with the game. They put a lot of investment into ensuring that fresh and interesting game content continuously moves into the live servers. If they put more hours and finances into the game mechanics rather than the lore, that is what ultimately people are going to stick around for.

    Sad to say, but the majority of people who pay World of Warcraft subscriptions are not role-players (defeating the very term “Role Playing Game”; ah, sweet irony). People are more than willing to overlook such things and continue to enjoy the rich and ever-expansive content; you even admitted this yourself, Nhani (and I regrettably admit to it as well). In the end, we play games for the immediate satisfaction we get from them. Story is nice, but ultimately it’s just scenery and background.

    It’s funny, I actually joined the game for roleplaying reasons, but I’ve never actually roleplayed during the entirety of my online gaming experience (some 6 years now). I ended up playing for that long just because I enjoyed the gameplay, loved my character concept, and had fun playing with the people I know.

  6. 13 Shyana
    May 10, 2011 at 07:06

    Thats exactly the reason, why i quit playing World of Warcraft.

    Its a nice game, which brought me lots and lots and looots (5 Years) of fun with an roleplay guild, which goal was an authentic Nightelf play.

    But with all these mind blowing Lore-fails, it was impossible to get an good feeling anymore.

    Screw you Blizzard.

    (Sorry for the bad english)

  7. 14 LolDrood
    May 10, 2011 at 08:05

    “That said, sometimes I find myself wondering if they even care at all.”

    It’s not even so much disregard for lore, per se, that annoys the ever loving blue-eyed Pogo out of me, so much as the disregard for any narrative. Someone around the mid-way of the Cata ramp-up, my story-nerd sense started to get tweaked.
    It’s not one large thing that I can put my finger on, but a mesh of cross-selfreferential-fanservice and WTF moments. A thousand papercuts of things that don’t make any logical, if you will. If anyone remembers my little rave about about “20,000 High Elves in SW” a few months back, that’s where I’m coming from. No, there goddamned are NOT 20,000 high elves in SW. Because that’s the story you told.
    And then there’s Cata Horde. Oh jebus.
    Don’t get me wrong, I used to like the Horde. WC3, they were pretty cool. Kinda douchey, but they had an interesting mojo going on.
    Now? The similarity bewteen the Horde and the Axis powers circa ’38-40 is staggering to the point that I’m not sure that Cata isn’t just someone at Blizz putting together a doctorate thesis with a modern recreation of the Milgram Experiment on a macro scale.

    Bleh. I agree that none of this talk matters two cents to Warcraft: so long as dragons and corrupted/fallen heroes keep dropping purples, the game with continue. It’s just so terribly disheartening to watch such a cool universe slowly devolve into a Lucas money cow.
    Maybe in 4.2, Harrison Jones can team up with a band of Tauren Paladin to go back in time and be the ones to mediate the Alliance of Lordaeron.

    On the plus side? World of Tanks is fun. Pew pew pew vrooooooom! Anti-tanks guns need nerfing, and light tanks need buffing, but it’s surprisingly well put together for a free-to-play (cough cough pay to win) game. 🙂

  8. 15 Frostsaben
    May 10, 2011 at 12:00

    Even though for now I am taking a break from WoW I do wish to comment a bit.

    About the ghost talking in Stonetalon, I have no clue what to say about that, it did seem weird the first time I saw it, but on the other hand so did that human statue at Feathermoon Stronghold… did they change that by the way, the one in the middle of the town? I haven’t played since the first fix-patch after Cata launched, too busy with university final paper and stuff.

    About the cooking and fishing quests, they just seem like they threw them in spite not caring much since people complained that they have to all sit in SW. It was like a “Well we upgraded Org and SW and you complain you have to stay there? Well there you go, here’s so quests of the other ugly towns”. Even though I do appreciate the fact that they gave people finally the chance to move out of SW and Org, still the quest text sucks. And it’s only made worse by the fact they’re dailies and you see them all the time.

  9. 16 Phan556
    May 10, 2011 at 20:43

    Wasn’t Darnassus originally there before Teldrassil via an island, and below that island sprouted the new tree which pushed it up? I may be forgetting my Night Elf lore (not really my main focus, lol) but it may well be possible… but there’s conflicting information. I can’t tell for certain if it is still lore or retconned to being built on the tree, or if it was a retcon from the RP books.

    I really need to read up on my Kaldorei for the patch.

    • 17 Nhani
      May 11, 2011 at 07:57

      That sounds entirely like a fan theory to me because I haven’t seen a single piece of lore to support it or even suggest that might be the case. It probably would’ve helped Blizzard out a fair bit if they’d chosen to go that route, but pretty much all sources we know state there was no Darnassus before there was Teldrassil – the city was founded on top of the tree after it was grown.

      • 18 Fyrina
        May 11, 2011 at 12:22

        Oh, that reminds me. Isn’t the fact that the Kaldorei language in-game is called “Darnassian” completely wrong as well? Why would an ancient language be named after a city that only came to be a good decade ago? I wonder…

        • 19 Nhani
          May 11, 2011 at 12:50

          Actually, it seems more likely that it’s the other way around, with the city being named after the language. There’s the interesting matter that back with the first Warcraft RPG sourcebook (released in 1993 – before World of Warcraft itself was released), which is set (or tries to be set, at least) before WoW itself, also happily refers to the language as Darnassian, in spite of having neither Teldrassil nor Darnassus, and instead pegging Nighthaven in Moonglade as the Night elven capitol.

          I’m actually not sure whether it was simply written in a way where Blizzard didn’t want to spoil too much of World of Warcraft itself, or whether some ideas (like Teldrassil, perhaps) weren’t quite solidified at the time. This said, it seems to strongly suggest that the language was called Darnassian long before the city of Darnassus came to be.

          Whether this would mean that the city was named after the language or that “Darnass” has some sort of meaning is impossible to say until Blizzard gives us an answer. But until we have any more information, the logical conclusion seems to be that the language had the name first, and the city for some reason came to share it.

  10. 22 Gordrake Thunderhoof
    May 11, 2011 at 10:12

    Blizzard, you need someone to get through your Story Bible for Warcraft and fix the damn thing to make sure nothing ever gets out of line lore-wise in the past, future or whenever. And to make sure your history actually makes sense rather than being a hash-up of ideas, misguidings and failed directions.

    I happen to be unemployed at the moment and I’m working on story bibles for my own project. If you need an employee to work on getting your story straight, I’m right here Blizzard.

    That said, yeah, I never took seriously a lot of the quests simply because it often has no concept of the passage of time (even though the world got older, it hadn’t done that for everyone else for five years) and there’s no real “Right, so these changes are happening in real-time. I better be careful.” It also becomes frustrating that almost everything is a gimmick on something else rather than something original and unique of late. Westfall, for example. Cashing in on what is quickly becoming an internet meme.

    Granted, it started the meme of “Leroy Jenkins”, but regardless.

  11. 23 Cobs
    May 11, 2011 at 16:38

    That face-palm made my day. ❤

  12. 24 Tali
    May 12, 2011 at 18:32

    I think it may be more of the case that Metzen (he is the one who approved each and every single of the quests in the game) simply missed them, since he did had to read thousands and thousands of quests. As I quest on my various characters, I noticed that the quests have different styles to them, which leads me to believe that more than one person writes those quests (how otherwise to explain grammar mistakes that pop up every once in while?).

    That’s my explanation, and I’m sticking to it. 😛

    Regarding Knaak, I heard that Blizzard are slowly trying to recon Knaak’s work out of Warcraft lore, since it posed far too many problems for them, and that Blizzard is now excising greater restrictions on writers who write for them, since Knaak fouled things up (it was painfully clear that Knaak knew nothing about lore before he wrote for them).

    It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the future – I suspect that above is correct, because other than slight appearances (e.g., Rhonin and Vereesa in Dalaran), we have yet to see anything else of Knaak’s in the game (other than the dragonflights, which Blizzard had refined).

  13. May 13, 2011 at 20:40

    It also doesn’t help that Blizzard dropped the ball for Alliance lore as a whole during this expansion.

    Horde get to see the Banshee Whore and Donkey Kong Hellscream in several areas through the leveling experience, whoring it up for the Horde.

    All the Alliance leaders stand around, dumb as posts, and do nothing.

    And don’t even get me started on the entrance to the Twilight Highlands that the Alliance was supposed to have.

    • 27 Tali
      May 15, 2011 at 20:25

      Are you the same Dallanna – female dwarf paladin – from the Story Forum? If so, this is Watermist. 🙂

      • May 16, 2011 at 15:08

        Yes, yes it is.

        Though, I let my sub run out because I needed to save money as I am still looking for work.

        But that doesn’t mean I still can’t rail against the Horde and Blizzard’s poor writing decisions.

  14. 30 Faroth
    May 15, 2011 at 16:38

    Dolanaar was a village destroyed by the Burning Legion. The one on Teldrassil was named in its honor. She’s referring to the original one when she says they grew up together.

    The cooking daily quest giver’s family has been making kimchi for generations and it’s the best in Darnassus today as well.

    ….no, it’s not accurate, I’m pulling excuses out of me bum! -_-

    I definitely agree with a lack of leadership contribution from the Alliance. Everyone calls Wrynn a bigoted war mongering idiot, but I’ve seen him do absolutely nothing to drive the machine of war from the Alliance side. We’re always getting our tails kicked and responding to Horde aggression….EVERYWHERE (except south Barrens).

    And why, oh why oh why, did Blizzard bring Malfurion back? So we could have him lead the defense on Hyjal and the counter attack into the Firelands in 4.2 where….we get a really awesome and epic questline involving THRALL!

    Yeah! More Thrall! More Garrosh and Sylvanas!

    Let’s ignore the issue of the Council of Three Hammers, one of whom leads the Dark Iron Dwarves who WORSHIPED Ragnaros.

    And Tyrande? Malfurion? What? Who are they?

    Wrynn? He did stuff last expansion.

    The gnomes, then…what? They have a leader?

    • 31 Aldrius
      May 22, 2011 at 22:02

      Meqqatorque does about all he needs to, I think. Not sure what more they could or would do with him.

      Falstad/Kurdran does stuff in Twilight Highlands. (In beta it was Kurdran, not sure if they changed it to Falstad)

      Furion does quite a bit, though. He’s heavily involved in questlines in Hyjal and Darkshore, and he’s got a fairly substantial role in 4.2 from the looks of things. Also I wouldn’t say Thrall has done all THAT much this expansion. He sends you off into Deepholm and is in the Goblin starting experience a little bit. This new questline is pretty Thrall-heavy, as well, though.

      I admit we could see more from Jaina, Varian and Tyrande, though. We’re seeing mostly incidental Alliance leaders like Valeera and Anduin and such do a lot of stuff, and seeing the actual Alliance leaders do… very, very little. All Jaina’s done this expansion is cry.

  15. 32 Yunaris
    May 15, 2011 at 22:31

    I noticed the problem with the fishing quest back when it was on PTR. I not only stuck a thread up on the PTR forums EU side, I stuck one in the general discussion AND the US PTR forums.

    Frankly, no response. It’s one of the reasons I’m more and more losing interest in trying desperately to cling to what rubbish they or Knaak haven’t ruined.

    • 33 Yunaris
      May 15, 2011 at 22:34

      I forgot to mention too, I agree entirely with all that’s been said in regards to the faction leaders. Tyrande has done nothing this expansion, the quests in Hyjal have just assured us yet another two Alliance leaders have been devolved into nothing more than neutral quest givers.

      Why Cenarius isn’t riding into Ashenvale right now and driving the orcs into the sea is beyond me. Bah, this expansion alone and my proper introduction into pen and paper is making me see more and more that dev driven storylines simply do not work as the basis behind stories.

      We need sandboxes, not more themeparks.

  16. 34 Crazybongo
    May 29, 2011 at 16:33

    I couldnt agree more with blizzards lackadaisical attitude with the lore. its unrealistic! Its not nearly as bad as following my other universe Warhammer 40k. But there are quite a few loopholes. Also why is blizzard always always so pro horde? Like i was telling my guild mates in a discussion last night, horde quests have them either killing alliance, burning down alliance bases, or killing some enemy. And the Alliance quests make us look SO soft. Ashenvale for example, why are horde doing all the attacking mostly and alliance does nothing? You almost get the feeling that the Alliance only feels justified in attacking horde when they been assaulted first. Ive been playing since Valina and i could go on with this for hours but quests on alliance always do seem to be half assed. When oh when will blizzard correct this, and stop giving horde bigger axes and bigger boots to stomp and cut us asunder with?

  17. 35 Liyint
    June 6, 2011 at 00:23

    Might be worth bringing up on the forums? I have heard of cases where dialogue was changed to keep lore more cohesive. :\

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